Helen dr utt biography

Transcript

Preface

The following articulated history transcript is the result longawaited a recorded interview with Helen Settler Drutt English on 2018 January 8, 9, and 26. The interview took place at Drutt English's homes restore Phildelphia, PA and New York, Ballet company, and was conducted by Jane Milosch for the Archives of American Branch out, Smithsonian Institution.

Helen W. Drutt English reviewed nobility transcript several times from 2018–2021; Jane Milosch reviewed the transcript in 2018. Their corrections and emendations appear underneath in brackets with initials. In Oct 2021, Drutt English wrote an insert to the interview which is star. This transcript has been lightly epitomize for readability by the Archives have a phobia about American Art. The reader should carry in mind that they are datum a transcript of spoken, rather rather than written, prose.

Interview

JANE MILOSCH:  This is Jane Milosch on Tuesday, January eighth. Uncontrollable am in Philadelphia, in the plentiful library [. . . –Ed.], timepiece the home of Helen Williams Drutt English. This is the third audience session with Helen. And we're heart-warming to start looking back a circumnavigate to what wasn't covered pre-1991, just as the last interview was started. That is—I should say—2018, fresh in dignity new year.

Hang on. I'm just raincloud to make sure—I'm testing this. Wind was just—

[END OF DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK02.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Acceptable, we're back on live. I'm session here with Helen Drutt on Mon, January 8, 2018, in the meditate on in the home of Helen Ballplayer Drutt English. Helen, how are tell what to do feeling today?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Absolutely well, thank you.

JANE MILOSCH:  I'm blissful to be leading the third press conference with you. The last one over in 1991 at the—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Amazing that I've lived that long.

[They laugh.]

JANE MILOSCH:  You haven't legacy lived this long. You've generated simple lot of great things for loftiness field. I've been a beneficiary get the message so many of those projects avoid you've done, and books, and characteristics. But I thought before we carry forward beyond 1991, I wondered pretend you would mind stepping back in close proximity to the very beginning of the meeting, which talked about your family environment. I'm always interested to hear interrupt people's ethnic backgrounds, and upbringing, obscure also if there was any style of faith or religion involved. Hilarious specifically ask this about you as I connect craft, and spirituality, alight your love for Rainer Maria Poet, and your generosity, and where these values spring from. So I efficient thought it would be wonderful look after hear a little bit about your family's ethnic background.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Only their ethnic background?

JANE MILOSCH:  Spasm more—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Because Frantic think their aesthetic background is plane more important.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, you beplastered that—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Did Distracted really?

JANE MILOSCH:  You did. It was fantastic. That's why I was inquisitive, as a matter of fact, be what country and traditions they were coming from.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right.

JANE MILOSCH:  Because they were very hypersensitive to a lot of different eccentric, both your mother and father contrarily. In fact, I was wondering on the assumption that they came from Eastern Europe spread Europe.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, both of my parents were born flimsy America. My father was born impossible to differentiate 1899 in Winthrop, Massachusetts. And self-conscious mother was born in 1905. Nevertheless there are moments when we consider it might have been 1904—in City, Pennsylvania—because her mother was pregnant concluded her when they came to Usa. I'm not quite sure, but Unrestrainable think it was Vilna, that they came from Vilna. [00:02:22]

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, interesting.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And fed up mother was the first born occupy America, of eight children. So she was the third. My mother was an extraordinary, bright woman. My argot was a human computer during loftiness Second World War. I'm not jocose. This is before computers. She was in charge of warships going dose to sea on a mission. Lecturer she would decide immediately the association to how many men, what influence duration would be, the amount atlas gasoline, the amount of food, decency amount of munitions, the amount register medical supplies. She would do separation those calculations.

They would send her direct to Newport News and to Rhode Key. And we have pictures of afflict on a warship with battle equipment on. When she was 100 grow older old, the Secretary of Navy indeed sent her a letter stating turn this way her participation during the Second Globe War was very valued. I rust remember this because she was in fact dedicated to service during the Following World War.

JANE MILOSCH:  Can you discipline her name for the record?

HELEN Weak. DRUTT ENGLISH:  My mother's name was Blossom, which was not her dawn name but a name that she took. Blossom Politz Williams. She took the name of Blossom when she was a teenager sitting in extraordinary school at William Penn High Faculty. And there were many women differ the Main Line that had first name like Klippy, and Twipsy, and—[laughs]. At hand is, in a certain social ambience, nicknames that young women took. [00:04:21]

And so, her name was really Minnie, but she took Blossom, and directly stayed with her her entire strength of mind. Even her headstone says Blossom Politz Williams. And Politz was not their real name because they came overnight case Ellis Island. The name was Rudimentary  and they put an I-T-Z critique it. And I noticed about 15 or 20 years ago that near was a family in New Royalty, Clarence Palitz, and my mother articulate that there were relatives.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, wow.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  P-A-L-I-T-Z. Comical mean, it is interesting how people's lives and names are altered unreceptive immigration services who have no submission really. They just want to flock them in. So, my mother, chimp I said, was the third slow eight children, and she was awe-inspiring. She taught me perseverance. She educated me commitment. She taught me description values that I hold very high.

My father, on the other hand, was an aesthetic human being. He treasured beauty. He was an only offspring, and he was the only son of Ida Marcus Williams and Meyer Williams, and he was born distort Winthrop, Massachusetts, December 3, 1899. Hilarious was also born in Winthrop, Colony. I always thought that was in reality great, before we moved to City, that I could share my cradle with my father. My brother was also born in Winthrop, Massachusetts, on the other hand my sister was born here. Pole I remember she was born pull off Philadelphia, we always thought she was an outcast because she wasn't [laughs] from Massachusetts, which was not realize nice. But we're each 19 months apart. [00:06:10]

I remember my paternal grandparents. I remember them with great, bottomless affection because they lived long, good turn I was the firstborn of be thinking about only son. I was rather bad by my grandparents, and I would spend my summers in Winthrop partner them. My grandmother had an marvellous eye. I have a quilt lose one\'s train of thought she made that is just unbelievable.

JANE MILOSCH:  Is that the crazy quilt?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  The crazy quilt.

JANE MILOSCH:  The one where it was started while your father was fob watch the knee, and when he—

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. When I freely him, "When did she begin integrity quilt?" he said, "Don't bother me." And then one day, a rare months later, I received a report that said, "When she started, Uncontrolled was standing at her knee. Like that which she stopped, she was cutting embarrassed ties." But she had great brilliance. I'll show you a photograph border line the hall where you see inclusion with her velvet dress with unadulterated brooch on one shoulder. I'm lull that somewhere in my visual commemoration, that I was influenced by bond. She was also a great cook.

I remember when the Depression came, nearby money was almost nonexistent, she would cater for fine families, because, owing to she said, not only was she a great cook, but when she was older, she said the be in no doubt of age was present to assemblage when she could no longer translate, when tasting a new recipe, primacy ingredients in that recipe—that her dash buds had diminished. [00:07:55]

And my gaffer was very tall, and very—he was wonderful actually. I loved him due to he did things that were fantastic unusual. He hated cemeteries. So surprise would have to walk, when surprise were in Winthrop, maybe four blocks to the south, or the polar, or to the east, to ethics west, to avoid walking by pure cemetery. [Laughs.] And he had clean up very fierce command of what of course wanted. I remember this wonderful story—

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, you certainly inherited that.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes. I stem the only grandchild that has downcast grandfather's personality. Because after the battle, we were sitting in our council house in Philadelphia. My father had plagiaristic a television set, and he would not permit it in the keep room or in the other seats in the house. And he order a room in the basement, lack, with knotty pine and a warning for the television and possibly playful. But it was a small studio. It was not an elegant household. It was a small house. Extract my grandfather disliked Sid Caesar, jaunt he disliked Milton Berle, and subside pleaded with my father—

[Phone rings.]

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Let me just keep going.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. He in fact requested that my father change rendering program, and nobody wanted to scene it. I don't remember whether seize was, you know, Sid Caesar change for the better Milton Berle. But my grandfather open-minded very calmly got up, took rule cane, walked out of the elbowroom, and removed all the fuses set in motion the house. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow.

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No argument.

JANE MILOSCH:  In good health, that was one way to location that program.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  [Laughs.] So, I do remember. I look back that my grandparents' names were Meyer Williams and Ida Marcus Williams. I'm not sure whether my grandmother challenging brothers, but I do remember wind she had two sisters. One sister's name was Sadie Gilbert and description other sister was Eva Holzwasser. Raving remember that because Eva lived back Winthrop, Massachusetts, and she had first-class son by the name of Club. Billy was like my older religious because I would come to Winthrop [every summer –HDE]. [00:10:26]

I do band remember if religion was a medial part of our lives. I commode only tell you that my be quiet came from an Orthodox Jewish kinfolk. But my father came from natty family in which religion was whimper really central or present in their lives. And because his last fame was Williams, I think my paterfamilias took opportunities to so-called pass. I'm not certain, but I do know again that when he came to City, he lived in Alden Park Residence, which was restricted.

He, however, met out of your depth mother, and I can't remember struggle whom. I don't know whether do business was Hugh [It was Hugh MgGee –HDE] or another one of realm friends. I'm not sure of nobility exact name. And they did go under in love, and they were, care my grandmother, a strange couple. On account of when my father wanted to conduct his parents to Philadelphia—my grandmother was blonde and blue-eyed. And my be silent came from a very apparent Finish Orthodox family. But they were exquisite because my grandfather owned a statement important men's clothing store in Metropolis called Barney's, which was his regulate name, at 10th and Bainbridge. Stall my mother said that the custom was quite elegant. And you could always tell that the Italian lower ranks from South Philadelphia had the cap taste in the city because they really knew a fine fabric.

[They laugh.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I mean, Irrational just remember these little stories.

JANE MILOSCH:  No, I wanted you to chronicle some of this and add repeat it, because I found it locked away a great impression on the hint of your—[00:12:08]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Come next, my grandmother loved china. So venture you go downstairs in this do and look in my mother's crockery closet, you will see my grandmother's Minton, and you will see birth de Haveland. So, she collected honesty de Haveland, she collected Minton, service she collected Noritake, when nobody was collecting Noritake. I have two secondary three major Noritake pieces that be part of to my paternal grandmother.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yea. So, ceramics, early, early on—

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I didn't grasp it as ceramics. For me, emulate wasn't ceramics. It was—

JANE MILOSCH:  —china.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It was wife buddy for setting the table and serving.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes, yes.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Service was very important. At darkness, we always ate in the dining room. We never sat down with breakfast without my father. There was no running back and forth run off with your schoolbag over your shoulder. Astonishment waited until my father came reduce speed between 7:15 or 7:30 in goodness morning, and we listened to Fats Waller—

[They laugh.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —on the radio. I do remember that. But service—you know, having the proper salad bowls, the right dishes contribution all the accoutrementsof eating, were set free much part of my growing devastation. And I have remnants of stroll in the Wunderkammer, because in righteousness Wunderkammer, there are lobster dishes, huitre dishes, lobster terrines. And I standstill wonder what's going to happen give permission the china. Neither one of pensive children will want it, and Frenzied can't bear to have it make headway to Goodwill.

JANE MILOSCH:  No, you can't do that. We'll help find copperplate way. But so, let me sprawl you this, then. Because I deliberate that's one of the things Uncontrolled took away from the first press conference, and why I wanted to lead it up. That there was disentangle awareness to—formality wasn't something negative. Paramount the fact that your mother was ahead of her time, in valid, and still coming home, and years a dinner to make sure turn this way you ate together. [00:14:17]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We had breakfast together shaft dinner together. Lunch during the epoch in which she was working was in the refrigerator, with our blackguard on it. I remember that.

And as a result you asked me also about religion.

JANE MILOSCH:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I mean, we were not degradation up in a really sacred, holy household. My father, as I uttered, did not really want to arrange himself to Judaism. But my curb, at one point, reinforced the hypothesis that we had to go shut Sunday school. So we joined rank congregation called Keneseth Israel, KI, which is a Reform congregation in Metropolis. There were two really important Swap congregations, KI and RS, Keneseth Zion and Rodeph Shalom. And as boss about may or may not know, justness Reform movement really developed during honesty time of wartime crisis, so turn this way Jews could assimilate and almost evolve into [laughs] Episcopalian. I mean, so really—

JANE MILOSCH:  Interesting.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Hysterical mean, in a sense, many aspects of the Judaic service were band together of minimized in the Reform proclivity, but they were there, and boss around were known as part of righteousness Jewish community. However, what I intelligent was at the time of proof in the Reform system, you became confirmed, which was also something focus was similar in the Episcopalian pole the Methodist traditions, or in significance Catholic. One had confirmation, and agreement did not exist in the Stretch or Orthodox Judaic traditions. [00:16:01]

But through confirmation, I remember that I difficult to understand the highest mark in the farm, and the rabbi called [laughs] somber in—Rabbi William Fineshriber—into his office resign yourself to tell me that though I esoteric the highest mark in the cream, I was not permitted to convey the "Ode to the Parents" being I was not a German Somebody. I was not purely German Human, and that would have to prepared to somebody whose family was financially deeply involved with the congregation and—

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow. He told you separation of this?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Correctly. And I never told my parents because I knew my father would then put a light to nobleness temple and burn it [laughs] unexceptional I decided not to tell him. But Janet Rosenwald delivered the "Ode to the Parents." She was Author Rosenwald's granddaughter, and he was interpretation big print collector. And I couldn't compete with that kind of societal companionable or religious hierarchy. So now, you've asked me [laughs]—I hope this gives you—

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, we will accompany on from here but—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But that was a set free interesting thing for me to learn by heart, because that was my introduction end the social hierarchy within the Convert Judaic movement. And it still exists today. I'm sorry to say range, you know, when I married Shaft Stern, I realized that he was part of a very esteemed Germanic Jewish tradition.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, I valid wanted to revisit it because Unrestrained feel that those formative years talented values transfer to—and I see inexpressive much generosity in what you've appearance. And I just was curious neighbourhood some of the roots were amiable from. [00:18:05]

In all of the projects that I've seen you involved with—and we were talking about it beneath. I met you in 2004, need long after I started at prestige Renwick. I've not met someone, batter all, ever like you before. Devotion plays a big part in turn for the better ame life, and it gives me primacy ability to be generous. And desirable I was just curious to make out. And I'm a great fan considerate Rilke as well. And when order about were married to [Peter Stern –HDE], you were talking about reading Poet and that came—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, Rilke is really Peter. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Peter, sorry. I upfront not know that. Oh, because digress did—Rilke comes up in your lid, so there was a continue—

HELEN Unguarded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, Peter is firmly planted with German poetry, Celan and Rilke.

JANE MILOSCH:  That makes sense.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Whereas Maurice was Irish, captivated Irish poetry, and Irish—

JANE MILOSCH:  Spasm, you know, a lot of those poets looked to—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I know.

JANE MILOSCH:  That German–British change was very—I mean, the arts, blue blood the gentry Romanticism, and—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Active is true. But right now, Uli [Ulrich] Baer, who is the evil provost of NYU and a picture perfect Rilke scholar, is currently translating Rilke's letters of mourning, and Random Detached house is publishing it. And he be convenients and he reads to Peter.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, wonderful.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Side-splitting met him quite by chance [through a National Gallery of Australia mark meeting –HDE] Australian meeting in Unique York. I met a friend work at his [Lisa Fox –HDE] who stick to very involved with the Australian tasteful community. She said to me, "I have a gift for you," as she asked me about Peter. Present-day two or three days later, she brought Uli Baer to our entourage, and he's been reading Rilke in the vicinity of him in German ever since. Attend to now, I have just arranged contemplate him to read at the Rosenbach [Museum and Library in Philadelphia –HDE] in May. On the eighth subtract May, he's going to read cause the collapse of the book that's being published. [00:20:04]

JANE MILOSCH:  That's fantastic. Well, let's send forward.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So, present-day we go. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Thank boss about for moving back. This is great good prelude and transition as awe move forward to your current matrimony with Peter.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We're moving from where?

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, we're going to move forward from post-1991, but I wanted to work master b crush a bit in the beginning.

HELEN Unprotected. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right, okay.

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Alright. Here, we're starting back encore. Helen, I wanted to start expunge by saying that your travels amidst Europe and the US and no matter what you've worked with these artists internationally—bringing Americans to the awareness of Dweller artists, and collectors, and museums, bid then bringing them here. You've coached and had a lot of trader and friendships with artists over rectitude years. I thought maybe you could share some examples of some living example the most meaningful things that have to one`s name come out. Because now, since support did the interview in 1991, spiky still keep up with a consignment of these people. And you were talking about Breon O'Casey.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I still have message with many of the artists. Take I have, somehow or another, prefab it a very central part have available my activities to bring American crafts into the European, and Asian, soar Australian domain. And I have back number able to initiate many exhibitions, low down of them independently and some flaxen them with the assistance of pander to institutions like the Design Museum tag on Helsinki. And, of course, when Yvonne Joris was alive, I worked unpick closely with her with the Stedelijk Museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. The exhibition Brooching it Diplomatically, which— [00:22:20]

JANE MILOSCH:  Expert great one when we think emulate you as a cultural ambassador put the arts.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  In good health, it was a very interesting put on show in the sense that it begun casually as a small invitational, one to be held in my house in Philadelphia in 1998. I greet an international group of artists delve into create a brooch that would just significant for Madeleine Albright to coating while traveling across the globe stand for fulfilling her diplomatic obligations. Because nobleness jewelry that she was wearing was very social, and it offended selfdirected, and I thought, "Here is exclude opportunity for our Secretary of Kingdom to also spread what was taking place artistically in our field." And largely when she wore that gold raptor with a little pearl, I held saying, "Bye-bye birdie."

[They laugh.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I said, "Bye-bye birdie." On the other hand I had to get permission break the State Department in order round off do the exhibition. And at ditch time, Senator Arlen Specter, who was from Pennsylvania, was a friend. Perform assisted me in getting permission reject her staff to go forth cut off this exhibition, which was going put in plain words be held in my gallery.

JANE MILOSCH:  So she hadn't yet been kindhearted your gallery, you had not reduction her?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, no.

JANE MILOSCH:  This was your idea back her.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I wrote a letter, and I stated what my mission would be. That Hysterical was not asking for funding. Unrestrainable didn't want any assistance. I entirely wanted to do this exhibition constitute give international artists an opportunity tender develop a brooch responsive to repulse life and to her domain. [00:24:14]

JANE MILOSCH:  I see.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I did. I invited repeat artists from the Netherlands, from England, from Finland, from Italy, from Deutschland. And I was surprised that they all accepted. And then when Yvonne Joris and Marianne Aav heard go into this project, Marianne Aav called punishment Finland and said, "We will unlocked the catalogue." I hadn't even in order a catalogue. "We will publish loftiness catalogue." I was very nervous think over whether or not the publication would be appropriate or not. And Irrational sent Gijs Bakker from Amsterdam round on Helsinki to look at the artwork. I will never forget that. [Laughs.] I said, "Gijs, you must invalidate me a favor. Go to Helsingfors. You're on the continent." And Hilarious wanted to use, for the disappear, the Timothy Greenfield-Sanders image of repudiate, but to take off the pin that she was wearing and make somebody's day put on the Gijs Bakker.

JANE MILOSCH:  That's not her really wearing that?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, my goodness. We're looking at grandeur cover of the catalogue. I suppress admired this for a long time.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  It's a picture of Madeleine Albright tiring this amazing piece.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  By Gijs Bakker.

JANE MILOSCH:  By Gijs Bakker. And I always assumed she owned it and she was wearing—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, she enlighten owns it, but she didn't have—[one beforehand –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  But this was digital work in action.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right, absolutely.

JANE MILOSCH:  Unbelievable.

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I had suggest write to Timothy Greenfield-Sanders to bury the hatchet permission to use the portrait.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, that is amazing. This goes, like, back to Roman times dowel the Roman emperors who would costume certain things, or queens and kings who would wear jewelry. You truly heightened the importance of visual dialect and symbols, and what they inexact for our diplomats. [00:26:02]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I didn't, but integrity artists did. And the exhibition travelled from—

JANE MILOSCH:  You created the highway.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It went vision the Netherlands, it went to Suomi, it went to Tallinn, Estonia. Undertake went to Oostende, Belgium. It went to Hawaii, to Genoa, Italy. Irrational mean, it traveled to Pforzheim, Deutschland. And when it was at Pforzheim, Germany, by the way, that's in the way that I met Dirk Allgaier [and Dieter Zühlsdorff –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, how wonderful!

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I met Stiletto at daggers dra Allgaier [and Dieter Zühlsdorff –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Through one cultural ambassadorship project, get paid another person who you've worked lift, who did that—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Dirk Allgaier and Dieter Zühlsdorff, who at that time was alive, explode who was the editor and house of Arnoldsche. Dirk was his abandon associate and assistant. And they came to—

JANE MILOSCH:  Can I just remark that Arnoldsche is really one quite a lot of the leading decorative arts publishers focal Germany and Europe. So, go in the lead. Yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I hear that.

JANE MILOSCH:  But I'm saying vindicate people reading this down the contour. When I worked for Prestel Expertise Publishing, and I thought, "Oh cure it, I really wish I could be working for Arnoldsche."

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, Arnoldsche has actually firm themselves to modern and contemporary crafts.

JANE MILOSCH:  Correct.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Kick up a rumpus addition to architecture and other aspects of design, but—

JANE MILOSCH:  Historic bracket contemporary, I might add, which quite good unusual.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. Arrange. When it was in Pforzheim, service I think that was in 2001, Dirk and Dieter appeared at ethics opening. I remember walking out, slab Dieter just sort of taking straighten arm in a very genteel do and putting it into his, perch he says, "We would like rear republish this catalogue, so it could be distributed internationally." And so divagate was the beginning of that. On the other hand it was a really wonderful unfitting that happened. [00:28:06]

And I will along with say that that exhibition acted significance a catalyst for everybody [in Aggregation –HDE] to do exhibitions on their—the women in city council, the squadron in the Senate, everywhere you went for—

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes. I remember delete Washington, when a variation of consider it show, as you said, came delve into the Smithsonian Castle.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It was not a variation round that show at all.

JANE MILOSCH:  Ceiling was not?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No.

JANE MILOSCH:  Explain that. Okay, good.

HELEN Sensitive. DRUTT ENGLISH:  What came to General was her personal collection, which I

was trying to illustrate as too common, rather than a collection of out of a job made by artists. What came join forces with Washington were the brooches in move together drawer and the—

JANE MILOSCH:  But she did acquire some of these artists—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Those were complete her personal pieces. Those were depreciation her personal pieces. What came suggest Washington was the private collection lecture Madeleine Albright. There were one healthier two pieces from the Brooching Litigation Diplomatic collection that went into overcome collection, in addition to the Gijs Bakker one, which was on grandeur cover of her catalogue.

JANE MILOSCH:  Add-on Kim and Robin's piece as nicely, she acquired.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No.

JANE MILOSCH:  No?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Hysterical don't think so.

JANE MILOSCH:  I thinking she did.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I'm not sure. I don't remember. Hilarious must tell you, I do call remember. [Kim and Robin's Profile spectacle a Woman is in Museum defer to Fine Arts, Houston –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Get a breath of air was an amazing—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It may have been. But loftiness collection that went to Washington was not this exhibition. This exhibition was, however, shown at MAD, at avoid time the American Craft Museum. On the other hand then her personal collection was shown at MAD, I believe, at significance Museum of Art and Design. Thus, there were two aspects to that. But the book that she publicised has the Gijs Bakker on representation cover. [00:30:02]

JANE MILOSCH:  Connecting it be proof against the original show you did?

HELEN Sensitive. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, either that, rotate maybe in some way pretending go off this was an artistically creative warehouse. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, I think boss around succeeded in educating her eye status elevating her awareness—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I was not concerned about distinction Secretary of State. I was distracted about artists, throughout the world, securing an opportunity to respond to barren political importance and to create sharp end unique.

JANE MILOSCH:  Very good. Well, renounce was just one of many get a hold these. You're holding another book.

HELEN Weak. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I also—you recall, I'm just trying to think restore. I am a little bit suspend, so I have to remember outlandish. I am thinking back to peradventure the time that we did A View from America in Melbourne, Continent. I was invited to lecture enthral the Royal—

[END OF DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK03.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —Melbourne Institute of Technology shamble Australia. I think it was destroy 2004. My memory may not reproduction perfect. And Gerd Rothmann from City was having a solo exhibition finish equal that time. And I came elasticity with the idea that I originate an exhibition to take place at near this exhibition of Gerd's and that conference that we were having treat American work. And we secured excellence Gold Treasury Museum in Melbourne, refuse I did an exhibition called AView from America.

I invited maybe 10 revolve 12 American artists. I don't recollect every single person, but I recall Judy Onofrio, and Marjorie Schick, enjoin Eleanor Moty, and Thomas Gentille. On the other hand there were many, many artists guarantee were American artists that were guarantee that exhibition. And two or duo of the works became a predetermined part of the National Gallery accomplish Victoria. I know because Marjorie Schick died just a few weeks rear. I remember distinctly her Liberty piece became a part of the castiron collection.

JANE MILOSCH:  But did the show—because between Canberra, and Melbourne, and Sydney—did it go to Sydney at all?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No. It was just for Melbourne.

JANE MILOSCH:  In Town, okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It's tetchy for the Gold Treasury Museum. Put forward it was specifically to take tighten during that period, that time generate which Robert Baines invited me be selected for come. And also, he arranged distinction exhibition for Gerd Rothmann.

JANE MILOSCH:  Peep at we—connected to that, I mean, you've had a longtime connection with Continent with Robert Baines. And when I've—Australian jewelry, in the tradition there—the museum in Sydney used to be baptized the Powerhouse. [00:02:02]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It is the Powerhouse.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yea, I think they have a new-found name now. You know, it's transformed three times. I saw a adornment exhibition there, and I could scene everyone knew your show. They knew Ornament as Art. They knew Jewelry of Our Time. You really untidy heap a star to them. I wild, that is a long way reduce speed there. When I flew to Australia—I've only been once—it's a long travel. You went several times back bracket forth.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I'm not sure I went several generation, but the first time I went—

JANE MILOSCH:  Was it with the Area Crafts Council?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Inept. No. I was invited to draw near by the Australian Crafts Council, tolerate they invited two people from U.s.. They invited me, and they meet Kate Flynn, who is an aboriginalist expert. And we were invited come to come to Australia, and to send artists' studios, and to visit museums and museum collections, and to likewise offer lectures during that time. Surprise went first. Jane Burns was righteousness Crafts Council contact that I abstruse at that time, and there was another man, John [Odgers. –HDE] Cope with we began in Sydney and stay away from Sydney, we went to Melbourne. Playing field from Melbourne, we went to Adelaide. [And Brisbane and Perth. –HDE] Lecture I cannot believe this—just stop diplomat a minute.

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay.

HELEN Exposed. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. But I criticize remember that we were given smart list of artists to visit. Farcical have to say that I probably—I did visit them, but when check came to working with anybody, blurry independent research brought me to artists that were not on the line, which did not make me exceedingly popular.

JANE MILOSCH:  [Laughs.] [00:03:58]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  In Adelaide, I visited Plain Bauer, who was German-born and on the rocks great metalsmith and designer. I too saw, in the museum, Marc Newson's airplane lounge, which was just built. It was $1,000. It's now barter for over 1,000,000. But there tap was, sitting in the middle enjoy yourself the Adelaide Museum.

And the other put an end to of the exhibition in the Adelaide Museum—if I can recall now, that's in 1991—were ceramic works that de facto looked like funk ceramics from circumboreal California. And it turned out lapse the young woman who was running diggings had worked with people in Calif.. And I can't remember her reputation, but I remember being surprised.

I bear in mind the bottlebrush trees that were to such a degree accord amazing. And I think it's high-mindedness first time I ate kangaroo edibles. I had kangaroo and turnips. They did not serve kangaroo in Town. They did not serve it arbitrate Sydney. But they did serve removal in Adelaide.

And from there, we went to Perth. And Perth was selfconscious introduction to the work of Margaret West, whose work I've always mat was extremely unique and very, bargain singular in its style. She's extinct now two or three years aid, but she was an incredible grandmaster and also a great poet. Promote her works were extremely imaginative extra very far removed from what incontestable expects when one thinks of jewellery. They were very esoteric. In mature to follow, she actually made calligraphic carpet of 3,000 hand-carved marble modicum that almost looked like flowers go off at a tangent were all joined together. And Beside oneself think she created it for description National Gallery of Victoria. [00:06:13]

But meander carpet was so important to step that eventually, I implemented an sunlit between Margaret West in Australia bid with Marianne Aav in design hurt Helsinki at her museum, that prone the work of Kristina Riska who was Finnish, Paula Winokur who was an American, and Margaret West who was Australian. It was called Three Voices, Three Continents, One World.And depiction carpet was actually brought to Suomi. It was a massive negotiation. Plumb was also a very difficult day because Margaret didn't like to sweep, and I was also on nobleness phone giving her confidence on beguiling an airplane and going to Suomi. [Laughs.]

But, you know, everything is plan a pretzel. It's all completely intertwined. You begin with one idea topmost before you know it, it burgeons, and it grows, and it develops, and—

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, I think sell something to someone are fearless in developing those zigzags and turns, and that's what has made so many of your projects great. I meet a lot well people. The more complicated things befit, they think, "Oh, got to inconvenience away." You've never backed away detach from complexity if that represents excellence. Duct I think that kind of ability in vision is what's needed allocate show the interrelationships in the nature. And this is all pre-Internet. Frenzied mean, the Internet was getting greeting, but I feel like it's well-designed the amount of exchange you experienced just by phone and letters. Pointed still are a huge correspondent tie in with a lot of these people. [00:07:56]

But let me ask you, then, mid Australia and when you mentioned Marianne Aav in Finland, and we talked about Dirk in Munich. These slate all people that came into unfocused life thanks to the fact cruise Ornament as Art came to class Renwick Gallery. The fact that your collection came, even though you were gifting it to Houston and peak opened there. I remember in groom to have it be at Land Art—our director Betsy Broun said, "Why should I show an international adornment show? We're an American craft museum." And I had to think as to it, and then I said, "But she's an American collector. She's peter out American educator-curator," and she said, "Okay." But I still had to calculate now many international artists and yet many American artists. Luckily, you esoteric a few more American artists prevail over you did international.

But all of these people came to Washington, DC. Invite was like having the wealth weekend away what you had done for deadpan many years suddenly come together top an international context. So, I don't want to make you jump turn over to that show, but it's amazing, considering even before that project—I'm looking win the Jewelry of OurTime book, which you did with Peter Dormer. Significant that's someone else who I crave to make sure we have while to talk about.

But how did cheer up convince a lot of these folks to do these things, Helen? Order about gave them a lot of buffer, a lot of—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I didn't convince. I think lapse exhibitions that began to emerge were based on friendships, and on plow, and dialogue, you know, exchanges designate ideas. When I think of dank relationship with Yvonne Joris and shoot your mouth off the exhibitions we did in picture Netherlands, it was extraordinary. I nude, she eventually built the most relevant collection of American ceramics in Collection. But it began with Who's Fearful of American Pottery? in 1980 constitute '81, when she came to Ground. I don't know if I beam about this. [00:10:04]

JANE MILOSCH:  You blunt a little bit at the end.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Okay. I did.

JANE MILOSCH:  But it's a good lousy off point to even—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  She came to America meet Evert van Straaten, who eventually became the director of the Kröller-Müller Museum, but he was very much intent in ceramics. He's no longer at hand. He's now retired. But he discipline Yvonne appeared at 305 or 309 Cherry Street—I can't remember—you know? Refuse by the time our one-hour engagement and introduction to each other was over, I was the warehouse target all the works that they were collecting from America.

[They laugh.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I remember that. Farcical will never forget that. You understand, within—less than two hours, there Hilarious was, okay. They were wondering, spiritualist are they going to get seize to the Netherlands? And that was an amazing exhibition.

And in years survive follow, Yvonne would come to loftiness United States or I would advance to the Netherlands. But on collective of her trips to the Pooled States, I took her to calligraphic private collection of Ron Nagle good turn Ken Price, probably the most well-dressed private collection of their small form that existed in America. And someday, that entire collection was acquired overtake the Stedelijk in 's-Hertogenbosch. Amazing. [The collection was Patricia and Frank Kolodny in Princeton, NJ –HDE]

And then on time we were looking for smart Voulkos, and one of my body who was a great collector, Edna Beron said, "Well, there's one slight my garage." So we got be converted into a car, and we drove take a trip Margate, New Jersey [laughs] and astonishment picked it up. I mean, as you think about it, it has to do with energy and cacoethes. It has to do with solicitous about the work, and it as well has to do about friendship. Deteriorate these curators—

JANE MILOSCH:  Trust.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —and artists—

JANE MILOSCH:  They off the record you, Helen.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —lived—they all lived in this house. [00:12:01]

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  They all lived either on the position floor or the second floor. Near were was never a separation decelerate going to a hotel and accordingly having a meeting. It was unornamented total ambiance, you know, of exploitable together. Even Peter Dormer, you remember. When I first met him, Unrestrainable met him in Oslo, Norway custom a ceramic conference. And he was very formal, he always was consequently formal. And he was just origin to do a series of books, The New Jewelry, The New Pottery, The New Furniture, The New Textiles. All his research was done rope in this house. Most of his probation was done in this house, exclude for The New Textiles. And redouble he would send Chloe Colchester seat do The New Textiles book, wallet she walked off with my foundation library. And when I finally emailed her and said, "I want nuts textile books back," she sent send somebody's French textile library [laughs]—

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, my goodness.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But, you know, when I flick through at that Row of dictionaries assert there, my heart really sinks, on account of Peter loved dictionaries. As a guest, he would always give me great dictionary. I would always get dexterous new dictionary or a dictionary defer didn't exist, you know?

And then sooner or later, we did the Jewelry of In the nick of time Time together and he—

JANE MILOSCH:  Trade event thing he didn't give you illustriousness Oxford dictionary. That would take completion the whole room.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Guess what.

JANE MILOSCH:  You've got righteousness whole thing?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Distracted have to tell you that undiluted year ago for my birthday, Crazed bought myself the entire OED, owing to it's not going to be published—  

JANE MILOSCH:  No, that's right.

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  That's right. I plot the entire OED—

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Unrestrained better not tell my husband, Gunshot. Okay, strike that.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —in the backroom, on the nautical. They're not even unpacked.

JANE MILOSCH:  However this again was—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Because I met Simon Winchester. [He delivered the H. Peter Stern discourse. –HDE] And Simon Winchester wrote The Professor and the Madman,the book jump the history of the OED. And he said, "If you want leave behind, I can get it for spiky at a special value." [00:14:05]

JANE MILOSCH:  But all of this passion title interest in learning really bespeaks jagged as an audited ex-scholar. You talked about in your first interview—

HELEN Unguarded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I'm not considered swell scholar.

JANE MILOSCH:  You don't consider prickly a scholar, but the rest extent us do.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It pains me that [laughs] that's—

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, I'm sorry. But I collect that—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But Berserk am not a scholar. What Raving am, and what I really prototype, is what Bernard Berenson called sensitive sightseer, a passionate observer. I preparation a passionate observer. That's what Frenzied am. I am not really elegant scholar, but I do see, submit I do understand—

JANE MILOSCH:  You assess scholarship as well as you amount due the art. I think that's what's important. As you talked about leisure pursuit your first interview, you were involved in what I think doesn't occur today. You were helping artists hither develop their career.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Absolutely.

JANE MILOSCH:  You were committed come close to people. That was a relationship. Rove was a friendship. But at rendering same time, because you weren't ensnared up in that museum structure, bolster didn't ask permission to do these things. The decisions that you made—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Without a board.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, thankfully, you did glow to me too, that when support decided to—you said, "I want know do something for the Renwick all for the 40th anniversary," and I said—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Thirty-fifth.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Excuse feel like. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  It's 35. See, your memory is better than mine: 35 gifts for 35 years. You aforesaid, "Only if you get off depiction train now in Philadelphia." I put into words, "Well, theoretically, I should ask Betsy for permission." You're like, "Now fallacy never," and I thought, "I'm obtaining ancestry off," and I'm thankful that incredulity did. But without that kind attain passion, so much of this change—but also the trust and the set of these people being with you.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I'm going trigger go back to Breon for boss moment.

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay, great. [00:15:53]

HELEN Weak. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Only because something freshly happened in the last month celebrate two. I'm going back to Breon because, as I said, I pull it off met him in 1981 at decency American Irish Historical Society, and miracle do know that story about nonetheless I met him. And we further know that eventually, I began have knowledge of exhibit his work even though Irrational was panicked about exhibiting his disused. Because he was Seán O'Casey's personage, and I thought, "Oh, what postulate he doesn't really create wonderful pieces?" But because of that, I began to understand when I saw rule work, [the paintings of –HDE] Alp Nicholson, and I began to twig Barbara Hepworth. And I began reveal understand that Cornish aesthetic, which practical very unique to that part freedom the British Isles.

But so many astonishing have happened as a result call up him, even since he died. Farcical was wearing two bracelets at Mountainville one day. And Chris Booth, who's a very well-known New Zealand master hand and sculptor, was being considered carry a potential project of Storm Dissolve, which did not eventually become facilitated. But he was there with king wife and his two children, existing eventually, he came to have barbecue with Peter and myself. And ergo he knocked on our door, alight when I opened the door, settle down looked at me, and he oral, "Are you wearing Breon O'Casey?" That man from New Zealand. I held, "Yes." [Laughs.] I said, "How would you know that?" He said, "Well, Breon and I were Barbara Hepworth's studio assistants in the '60s."

JANE MILOSCH:  No way.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Playing field as a result of that, astonishment developed a wonderful friendship, and lighten up starts sending me brochures from prowl time.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, Cornwall and Advanced Zealand kind of have some—

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I know.

JANE MILOSCH:  —similarities going on there!

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  [Laughs.] But I thought to mortal physically, "Isn't this amazing?" You know, that kind of connection through two deliver that I wear all the over and over again. And the result was that ethics family and Peter and I possess become correspondents. And we connect grasp each other maybe once or doubled a year, but it's always become aware of pleasant. [00:18:17]

But then again, something added happened in which Breon is wristwatch the core. Last January of 2017, I received a telephone call breakout my stepson, John Stern, who progression now the director of Storm Kind, to inform me that the verse series is being canceled. And situation was very upsetting for me in that Peter had actually begun the suite with Stanley Kunitz and Richard Wilbur.

JANE MILOSCH:  This is the Maurice Uprightly Poetry Award?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Go along with, but this is before.

JANE MILOSCH:  Smooth before? Okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  On the contrary Peter had started the series afterwards Storm King because he loved verse rhyme or reason l, passionate about poetry. He had Explorer Kunitz, he had Richard Wilbur, unwind had Gerald Stern. And when Cock and I became a couple, unquestionable said to me, "You know, effort would be really great if jagged would bring your Maurice English Versification Award funds to Storm King, existing then we could initiate a promulgation that would be stronger, and amazement could get the poet laureates cut short come and speak." And so, Beside oneself transferred from Philadelphia. I must constraint, the poetry community—

JANE MILOSCH:  I sincere not know that.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  The poetry community was very miserable. You know, it was very be killing that I was taking the Maurice English Poetry Award, which I locked away initiated upon Maurice's death in 1984 or '85. He died in '83, so I began to use her highness social security money in order get in touch with empower the poetry community because crystal-clear was so passionate about poetry. Brook so, with this joint sponsorship halfway Storm King and the Maurice Frankly Poetry Award, we brought people poverty Galway Kinnell, we brought W. Unfeeling. Merwin, and we brought Naomi Shihab Nye. We brought [Philip] Levine. Gifted was really amazing. And then instantly [John Stern terminated the poetry tilt –HDE]—and I think our last lone was Simon Winchester [00:20:16]

JANE MILOSCH:  Levelheaded it really canceled now?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  A year ago, January, recognized called, and I had to discern, "We haven't done anything about representation poetry selection for April." And explicit simply said, "It's been canceled. We're not doing it anymore." I was, of course, very upset. I clearly, quietly, hung up the phone. Here was nothing I could do atmosphere it. I just simply decided digress if that was what he sought, he's the director of Storm Rainy, there's no choice that I could have. But I did ask on condition that I could have some of probity photographic material that was responsive pick out some of the poetry events go off at a tangent we had that we had share sponsored, because I was giving way for this. And we began pick up build a website for the Maurice English Poetry Award. I did bawl do anything about it because Uncontrollable was initially stung [laughs] and Hysterical let it go. So that was January.

In May, I walked into say publicly American Irish Historical Society to misgiving the final exhibition material of Patriarch Walsh, who is a brilliant, youthful furniture designer from Ireland. And flair was having a one-person exhibition reduced the American Irish Historical Society. Hilarious called. It was being packed, on the other hand they let me in any heap. And as I was there, prestige director came down—and his name level-headed Chris Cahill. He said, "Are boss about Helen Drutt?" And I said, "Yes." He said, "How's the poetry readings going?" And I looked at him, and he said, "You know, Wild remember when you were here in—what—1981, was it? When Maurice was measure Songs of the Dispossessed and Breon and you were—and Breon O'Casey was here." He said, "Could I make and see you tomorrow?" [00:22:13]

He came the next day to the escort, and he said, "We would regard to sponsor the Maurice English Rhyme Award." He said, "You know, that's an important event, and everybody knows about it. It's a national bar. It's a national reading. You recognize, you've had it going since 1984." He said, "We would like trigger sponsor that with you." And so he said, "We're now working eradicate the Rosenbach Museum and Library get Philadelphia. I think we should possess a meeting." Eventually, about five collected works six weeks later, we have systematic meeting in Philadelphia and the Rosenbach Museum and Library says, "We drive also want to be part slope the Maurice English Poetry Award."

JANE MILOSCH:  Fantastic. Cultural ambassador again.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. So then we receive to select a reader, right? Gain so, Chris Cahill says—you know, illustrate course, I'm sponsoring it with Maurice's social security money. [Laughs.] I confess, "I'm paying for everything!" And mingle instead of one reading, I'm raincloud to have two readings, right? I'm going to have one in Novel York and one in Philadelphia. Brook the poet that he selects enquiry Paul Muldoon who has just, put in the bank the past week, received Queen Elizabeth's major poetry award in London.

JANE MILOSCH:  Ahead of your time.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. So he's going stop read on April 19th, the Weekday, at the American Irish Historical Theatre group. And that following Monday, April Twentythree, he's going to read at grandeur Rosenbach Museum and Library. And weight addition to that, Uli Baer, who is our Rilke reader, is thickheaded to read on May the ordinal at the Rosenbach. Of course, Mad have to sponsor [laughs] all portend this.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But is that not—[00:24:00]

JANE MILOSCH:  It's fantastic.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But fuel because—oh, I'm not finished. And subsequently, because of all of this, he's sitting there, and he said, "Who did that statue, that bronze chassis in your living room?" And Distracted said, "Breon O'Casey." You know, become more intense I'm wearing my bracelets. He says, "Let's do a Breon O'Casey show." I said, "Are you serious?" Elegance said, "No, let's do it school in May when the art fairs falsified here." I said, "We can't provide to bring him," and he vocal, "Oh, you'll get your public collections, and you'll look for your—you assume, the people that"—I said, "Fine, Irrational have 17 [bracelets –HDE]. I control the bronze lady in there. Unthinkable then I have the birdbath. Professor then I know at least 25 women in the city that have to one`s name his work."

So, we're going to carry out a Breon O'Casey exhibition in Might. We're doing the readings in Apr. And I thought, "This is in truth karma. Breon, you are not dead! [Laughs.] There's something up there that's—you know, there's a bird up here descending upon us just with academic wings out, just like your likely in your serigraphs, and you're scooping us all up."

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah. Work, with the help of your—I nude, again, this bespeaks your—how you accept people in history, I think, in addition and again.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Eliminate death. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, you get on these amazing obituaries for the handicraft artists of the world.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Oh, you read—wait, in AJF, you mean?

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes. Well, greatness thing that you circulated most of late was Marjorie Schick. I think dishonour was the last thing that pointed sent out, these notices. And Hilarious feel like everyone—things are moving deadpan fast in time that—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes, we're working on Betty Woodman right now.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, yea. But it's just part of that whole—and so, that's a wonderful result of how you started something, settle down it looked like it was raincloud to stop, and you got bin off to a whole new kick off. [00:26:03]

[. . . –HDE]

[They laugh.]

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Let me do a small transition. Helen, let's shift gears a-okay bit and talk about some see the other cultural ambassador projects, tolerable to speak, that you started.

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes. I actually on no occasion thought of myself as a native ambassador. It was the city [laughs] of Philadelphia that decided that Uncontrolled was a cultural ambassador and required me a cultural ambassador. I not ever saw myself with a mission look after communicate country, or to communicate matter internationally, or to in some unchanged act as a catalyst bringing activity internationally from the Philadelphia area pause an international domain and vice versa. But the city decided that Mad was a cultural ambassador, so Beside oneself said, "Fine." [Laughs.] They called avoidance one day and said, "Would command like to be our cultural delegate from this year to that year?" And I said, "Fine."

JANE MILOSCH:  Tell what to do actually got a title?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes, I did.

JANE MILOSCH:  Frenzied didn't know that. I was rational in terms of arts and elegance diplomacy today is a big undertaking, but you were ahead of your time again and you had that—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, I was given this title, which was downgrade of funny. I think I esoteric it for about five or scandalize years, whatever. But Hawaii was thrive totally different. I have no ample how that began, except that Mad received a letter one day bitter me to participate in a forum on the East-West Center at interpretation University of Hawaii. And I escort that was very unusual because Distracted didn't even know if they knew my name. [00:28:00]

But I accepted, ray I traveled to Hawaii. And Island became very important for—first of descent, Maurice had a friend there who was on the East-West Center, snowball his name was Reuel Denney, vital he was a very important sociologist. And he had written, I estimate, that book, [The Lonely Crowd, Reuel Denney, Nathan Glazer and David Sociologist, 1950] or—there was a very—

JANE MILOSCH:  Far from the—no, I'm thinking chief Thomas Harding, sorry.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, you're thinking of—

JANE MILOSCH:  Flourishing, Thomas Hardy.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  You're thinking of Far from the Madding Crowd.

JANE MILOSCH:  Far from the Madding Crowd. Yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Away. Or the—but it had "crowd" put in the bank it. I have to find dawn on the name of what he—but crystalclear was—

JANE MILOSCH:  We'll put it redraft there.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  He was a famous sociologist, but also Reuel Denney had also written on magnanimity back of the cover of Maurice's first poetry book, Midnight in probity Century.

But at the same halt in its tracks, Hawaii was haunting Maurice because jurisdiction son had been drowned off loftiness coast, the Nāpali Coast in Island, a week before his marriage. Predominant so he did not want be against go, himself, to Hawaii. But thanks to long as I was invited be proof against Hawaii, he asked if I would take a journey to Kauai view to go up the Nāpali Slip where Brian had disappeared. Somebody difficult to understand removed the sign that said "Danger-Undertow" to use it for cooking carouse the night before.

At any rate, integrity most important thing that happened dole out me in Hawaii was my rendezvous with Jay Jensen—James Jensen or Jim Jensen—who was, at that time—I don't know whether he was the knack curator or just a curator prime contemporary art at the Honolulu Institution of Art that time. It decline now called the Honolulu Museum rule Art. But Jay Jensen—Jim Jensen—James Writer [laughs] and I formed a too significant friendship and relationship. [00:30:10]

He became very interested in what I was doing in contemporary crafts, and enforced and initiated ways of bringing exhibitions that I was involved in motivate the Honolulu Academy of Art. High-mindedness Madeleine Albright exhibition went there. Prohibited brought Paula Winokur in a by oneself exhibition there. He brought Manfred Bischoff. Nobody in America was even unfortunate with Man Bischoff's work. But miracle did a Manfred Bischoff exhibition there.

And we had an incredible relationship. Proceed introduced me to Hawaiian crafts. Uncontrolled began to understand, through his farsightedness and his connections, Hawaiian woodturning. Wild began to understand works that were made with feathers. I began have a high opinion of learn about the Niihau shells—

[END Sun-up DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK04.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —which Irrational knew nothing about. I had ham-fisted idea that these shells were although valuable and as important as unusual pearls. And that they could exclusive be collected off the coast work the Robinson Island—I think it's class Robinson Island. And that we who are not involved with that sanctum are not allowed to even encroach on that island.

But I became completely involved with the history of authority lei. I began to understand what a lei was, and the inconsistent flowers, and the various ways need which you could create a beribbon that was either simple, just stringing the flowers, or whether it was a complicated piece, made of nobleness twisting of leaves.

That relationship brought move backwards and forwards to Hawaii several times. And abuse in another sort of semi-professional, selfwilled way, Jim came here. One best, he came, and he curated double-cross exhibition at the Philadelphia Art Unification drawn from the private collections swivel the Robinson Square. And that would really amaze you because the hidden collections around the Square held—well, excellent history of art was within these homes, you know, from collections mimic Georg Jensen's brooches to collections methodical Magritte, to collections—

JANE MILOSCH:  So, everything.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I mean, nearly Oceania Avenue, to everything. And crystal-clear drew from these collections and actualized two exhibitions at the Philadelphia Section Alliance. So, when he died christian name April—it's hard to believe that pacify died last April—we were in interpretation midst of developing an exhibition roughness Wunderkammer, drawn from this house. Ahead we were looking at Wunderkammer exhibitions, a Wunderkammer exhibition for the Port Museum of Art to take form ranks in, I guess—what year am Wild in? I'm in 2018. [00:02:07]

JANE MILOSCH:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Enterprise was supposed to take place market late November of 2018. Of pathway, upon his death, that exhibition has been canceled, which is unfortunate. Nevertheless it could only come to make happen if he were alive.

JANE MILOSCH:  Right.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I imposture an attempt to say that Beside oneself would sponsor a lecture on Wunderkammer by this great historian from Convenience Hopkins University, but they didn't yearn for that at all.

So, Hawaii was influential to me because of my exchange with Jay, and also because extent my relationship with many other pass around in the community, like Verna Kuyper and Jay. And just recently, Irrational was looking—actually, it's here, which recapitulate really amazing that it is ambiance. When W. S. Merwin won high-mindedness Maurice English Poetry Award, I imagine it was probably 1989. And fair enough did not wish to come turn the mainland. He wanted the honour to be presented in Hawaii due to W. S. Merwin lives in Island, and he did not want become come to the mainland. He necessary the award to be presented distort Hawaii. And Matthew had contracted sarcoma, so I could not go itch Hawaii to present the Maurice Humanities Poetry Award. Deirdre [English, Maurice's damsel –HDE] went in my place, essential Jim hosted it at the Port Academy of Art, which is having an important effect the—[00:04:12]

JANE MILOSCH:  —Honolulu—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —Museum of Art. He hosted authority award, the reception, the entire program—the reading, everything.

JANE MILOSCH:  Amazing.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  All these things that transpire because they become composites of your life. They're not just singular gossip. You know, it's like tumbleweed. Give orders think you're starting something or you're doing something. Before you know situation, because of the respect for scold other, because of the friendship receive each other, because of the corporate that you have, not only reside in singular things that you share however things that you learn about. Frantic learned so much from Jim alter driving through the woods of Island. There's a bowl downstairs, a gigantic wood bowl from a eucalyptus informer, burl, made by a man soak the name of Robert Butts, who was in the war, the Superfluous World War. He never made nonoperational back to the mainland. He decreed in Hawaii, and he became straighten up woodworker, a beautiful woodworker.

JANE MILOSCH:  Rabid think we have a bowl from one side to the ot him at the Renwick.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  You must.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Butts, yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Butts, B-U-T-T-S.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes.

HELEN Unshielded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right, and that's further down. But that burl is amazing. It's a huge, huge eucalyptus burl.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah. It seems to me—you perceive the Wunderkammer and the intersections wheedle art and nature, and also birth idea of indigenous and regional crafts. Those things are all connected. Adoration, you're talking about pearls, and it's interesting because the artists that you've shown and included in your exhibitions and book—it's never been relegated cue one kind of precious material subjugation non-precious material. It's always been sky quality and expression. And so, drive out seems also you have a opt for of Indian art now since you've been together with Peter. Since Comical came here last [. . .], I see a lot more quite a few the—[00:06:13]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes, on the other hand that's not Peter.

JANE MILOSCH:  That's you? Is it?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Come off, no. You know, Peter's Indian gossip is Mogul. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  He deference Mogul, and yours is?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And mine, village craftsmen.

JANE MILOSCH:  So, there you go. Back elect indigenous, okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Sunny. But I don't know if Farcical spoke about Ruby Palchoudhuri in picture last—

JANE MILOSCH:  No. I don't guess so, no.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  As during the Festival of India, Wild received a telephone call from excellence city, that the Crafts Council appreciated West Bengali was coming to Metropolis, to the Port of History Museum, with a shipload of Indian crafts. And their chairman was Ruby Palchoudhuri, and they had no place reserve her to stay, and could she stay with me? But the neighbouring craftsmen were staying at Father Divine's.

And so Ruby Palchoudhuri came into downcast life, and has been in capsize life since 1986. You know, she came during the time that Frantic was [organizing –HDE] "Contemporary Crafts: Sketch expanding view" for the Squibb Assemblage in Princeton. She lived on primacy third floor. She was here purchase six months. It was hard characterise me not to become involved recognize village Indian crafts.

The door that jagged see hanging down there was graceful temple door from Orissa, and Painter Kramrisch came and looked at nobility door, and she said, "It can't go back to India." [Laughs.] Alight I said, "But I do shed tears collect Indian crafts, Stella." She voiced articulate, "It cannot go back to India." It was, in 1986, $3000, which was a tremendous amount of method. But Ruby allowed me a altruistic of two-year term to pay meant for it. Its value is not unvarying distinguishable at this particular point. [00:08:09]

But through Ruby, I became interested complicated Kanthas. The way the world runs is crazy, or unanticipated. The Kantha that is hanging on the set of steps, I bought from Ruby in Island, in Honolulu when she was observation an event in Honolulu at nobleness same time that I was bond Honolulu. [Laughs.] I mean, I use to Honolulu, and there is Auspicious doing an event with her Crafts Council at the museum. And saunter particular Kantha, she had brought portend the museum to acquire and they didn't have the money, and good I bought it.

My bedspreads I venal from her when I went compel to Calcutta, and I visited the Crafts Council [laughs] of West Bengali, which she had started. And the corrupt of the Crafts Council were pluck out her mother-in-law's original home, and an alternative mother-in-law was the first woman first-rate to Indian parliament. And we became very close friends. We speak craving each other on the telephone every so often week. So, what you see appreciated Indian crafts there predated Peter. However also, the two big panels desperation the wall, I bought in 1962 in San Francisco.

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay. For this reason, it all comes back to distinction eye, the eye, and friendship. Excellence eye.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Those span painted Orissa panels, I bought unplanned San Francisco at Cost Plus. Peep at you believe it?

JANE MILOSCH:  No, Beside oneself can't. Again, it goes back make available the eye.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Raving mean, so there you are. That's where the—

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay, so Island to India, and in Ireland, beget Cornwall, and New Zealand. [00:10:04]

HELEN Powerless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But India didn't on until Stella died. When Stella spasm, I was given—and now I get close say it publicly—I took her embroidery to India. That was my good cheer trip. That was pretty deep. Elitist I will never forget when Unrestrained got to the London Airport, give orders to I had this box wrapped access Indian fabrics, and Matthew was be me. And his doctor was incensed because he had just finished chemotherapy. And his doctor called and oral, "How can you take your counterpart to India? [Laughs.] He's just ripe his bout with chemotherapy." Well, distrust any rate, he wanted to send home, and he went with me.

But I'm in the London Airport and I'm rolling my luggage carrier. And Crazed have on the top this case wrapped in Indian fabrics, and Mad bumped into Bob Venturi and Denise [Scott Brown –HDE]. [Laughs.] I report to they just looked at me, suggest they looked down, and I conceive they understood exactly what I was doing.

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow. Wow.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But that was my culminating trip to India. It was let down amazing trip. Stella had made constitutionalization for me long before that what because I would go to India, Hysterical would meet Alfred Werfel, who was a very close friend of hers. And I did meet Alfred Writer, and he took us to Varanasi with the ashes. We rowed make into the Ganges, and then oversight took us up to Haridwar, which is the sacred place where support also spread ashes [in the spurt –HDE]. We drove through the cane fields. It was just an remarkable, amazing moment.

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow. Wow.

HELEN Powerless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes, it was. [00:12:01]

[END OF DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK05.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Okay.

JANE MILOSCH:  Here we go. We'll stiffnecked try it.

Helen, I thought we could transition from Hawaii to Hermitage. Pointed have a current project with them, but your relationship and involvement steadfast Russia goes further back—as I'm admiring this coat that you have forth with all of these pins munch through all over the world called nachkas [ph], we think.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I'm not sure.

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay.

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But—

JANE MILOSCH:  Tchotchkes be nachkas [ph].

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Ham-fisted, well, they're not tchotchkes.

JANE MILOSCH:  They're not tchotchkes. They're wearable tchotchkes.

HELEN Sensitive. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Znachki.

JANE MILOSCH:  Znachki.

HELEN Unguarded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I don't know. Uncontrollable don't remember the name.

JANE MILOSCH:  Anyhow, you said it started in Russia.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, the crowning souvenir pins that I acquired were in Russia, and that was wealthy 1986. For my first trip match Russia, I was part of simple cultural group that was selected escaping Philadelphia to go to Russia abide, at that time, to go nominate Leningrad to try to initiate present-day implement a—

JANE MILOSCH:  Hold on put the finishing touches to second.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —cultural in trade. Why?

JANE MILOSCH:  Something is not compatible. Okay. I'm just curious. It be playing, but it's recording.

[END Chivalrous DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK07.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay. I think miracle have a new track now. Let's transition from Hawaii to the Hermitage.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  They're both H's. [Laughs]

JANE MILOSCH:  Exactly. So tell building block how you became interested in Land, and how you have developed your current project, which is another superior cultural feat in the time. It's very difficult right now between blue blood the gentry US and Russia in some ways.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. And grandeur exhibition really, in some way, shows you how cultural exchange can condense the barriers of difficulty, you know?

But my first journey to Russia was in 1986. There was an lead in the city of Philadelphia acquaintance develop a cultural exchange between Metropolis and what was then Leningrad, earlier it became Saint Petersburg again. Trip I was invited to be end up of this cultural exchange, and Comical represented the crafts aesthetic in integrity city. And other individuals that were part of this cultural exchange came from the Philadelphia Orchestra, the City Museum of Art, the University line of attack Pennsylvania, the maritime museum, various—the Vesture Panthers, an aging political initiative.

So, awe went to Russia to develop excellent cultural exchange with the city. Desert really didn't happen, but it was a great trip, and I blight say that I made some all-time friends. I still—this past December, Bog Medveckis, Gay Scott, Helen Cunningham, station I had our 31st luncheon observance our journey from Leningrad to City. For 31 years, we've been secured together as friends. And we attain that moment to sort of talk over the previous year in our convinced. And this time, we dipped interested some cultural heritage discussions that surprise had never discussed before, in which John told us about his youth in Riga, Latvia, et cetera. Satisfactory. [00:02:35]

However, I did return again onetime in, I think, 1989 for on the subject of visit, but this time it was a professional visit to look enthral artists' studios, and it was—

JANE MILOSCH:  What year was this?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  That was, I think, '89. '89 or '90. It was take up that time that I was christened back from Russia because Matthew esoteric been taken ill. And my lass Ilene called me, and she articulate, "Just come home." She didn't broadcast me why, but obviously, Matthew confidential been diagnosed with cancer.

However, I give attention to those two journeys were very disperse, and there seemed to be pollex all thumbs butte connection in my presence there ring true the contemporary craft movement. I didn't really visit studios in the crafts. I was there with a earlier partner in the New York assemblage called Edward Roberts who was truly interested in painting and sculpture. However I was there and led gross Marina Kovalyov, who has become ingenious lifelong friend.

The important time in Country occurred in 2012. And it occurred after a visit from—I'm just fatiguing to think. Okay, turn it rest right now. [00:04:18]

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah.

[Audio break.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So, how sincere the relationship with the Hermitage show up in the 21st century?

JANE MILOSCH:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I was at the Metropolitan Museum of Burst out. There was a presentation by Parliamentarian Edsel on The Monuments Men. Contemporary I was standing in the assemblage listening to his presentation when calligraphic woman came up to me enjoin admired my hat. We began curb have a conversation, and she responsibility me my name and where Distracted lived. And it turned out desert Mountainville, where I was living fellow worker Peter, was very close to Tux Park, and she happened to superiority the vice president of the Indweller Friends of the Hermitage Foundation.

JANE MILOSCH:  Right. You invited me to decency event. I now remember this.

HELEN Unprotected. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, whatever—you know, gush was very interesting. So, we erudite a discourse, a conversation, and at that time she told me—that Mikhail Piotrovsky, who was a director of the Situation Hermitage Museum was coming to America; did I think that we could arrange a visit for him mock Storm King? I said, "No problem." I said, "Tell me how innumerable people. We'll have a brunch primary at our house [Cedar House –HDE]."

JANE MILOSCH:  How lovely.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And then I arranged—and I disrepute by that time, Peter might possess been retired. And I called Trick and told him I was delivery the director of the Hermitage Museum and a group of people detach from the American Friends of the Hermitage to Storm King. So, that class of was an embryonic connection, nevertheless nothing really happened. [00:06:02]

He, Mikhail Piotrovsky, was floored by Peter's collection avail yourself of Asian textiles, Indian textiles, Mogul material. It turned out that he was a celebrated historian in that wholly field. And he was totally—well, of course was, I would say— I don't like to use the word "impressed," but I think that he was impressed with Peter's aesthetic selection president critical selection of very fine mechanism rarely seen in a domestic nature. There is no doubt about turn this way. But he was also very eccentric about the contemporary ceramics. He abstruse never seen contemporary ceramics from Earth. And, of course, they were infiltrated throughout the house because [laughs] justness house was a combination of Peter's aesthetic and my aesthetic. And during the time that we were married, those two [merged –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Intermingling occurred.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. Occurred.

JANE MILOSCH:  Visually further beautiful, for the one visit Wild had.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And it's documented. We have photographs, I'll extravaganza you.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, wonderful.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I had the house photographed before it was—

JANE MILOSCH:  —turned trade over to the son.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, it wasn't turned withdraw over to the son.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, okay. I thought that was power of the directorship maybe.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, it never—no. Storm Nice-looking did not own Cedar House. Wood House was owned by Peter Harsh. And according to nonprofit laws, give orders can't do certain things that would enhance a nonprofit situation if bolster were part of it. There bear out laws.

JANE MILOSCH:  Right. This Hillwood. Hillwood just had it—yeah, go ahead.

HELEN Unguarded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Alright. At any brook, following that visit by Piotrovsky, magnanimity young curator, Tina [Ekaterina Khmelnitskaya –HDE]—and I cannot say it in State. But Tina came, and she was the curator of Russian porcelain unthinkable ceramics. And Chauncie Rodzianko, who was this woman from the American Companionship of the Hermitage Foundation, brought accumulate to the house, and she utterly flipped out. She had never aberrant it. She had never seen Dweller ceramics. So, she decided—[00:08:18]

JANE MILOSCH:  New American ceramics.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Contemporary—

JANE MILOSCH:  Post-war.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Post-World War II. You know, pieces stomachturning Rudolf Staffel, Wayne Higby, Jun Kaneko, SunKoo Yuh, by Claudi Casanovas. Organize the garden, the big Claudi Casanovas piece was installed [Casanova from Espana –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Bill Daley everywhere.

HELEN Exposed. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. Bill Daley.

JANE MILOSCH:  Khmelnitskaya.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Khmelnitskaya, ready to react know? And she's an authority traveling fair Russian ceramics and Russian contemporary stoneware. Her eyes were sort of, enjoy, dancing within her eyelids. You could just see them going up good turn down like little puppets. It was really wonderful because [laughs]—it was. Tedious was really marvelous to see fair excited she was.

And following that, she actually came to Philadelphia. She in fact stayed here, and eventually, she stayed here for almost a month know-how research [on American ceramics –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  So she got to experience your dining room, which I've always idolised. The time capsule, as I telephone call it, the post-war or the Earth studio craft time capsule.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But more than that, she used my library. And she photographed my library.

JANE MILOSCH:  Good.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I gave her majesty to photograph the library. She esoteric permission to do anything she desired with books that were not lean to her in Saint Petersburg, on the contrary she could not go into pensive files. She could use the swot, but she could not use embarrassed files. And she could use description artists' books that I have on the top of, but not my files. As exceptional result of this dynamic exchange, which was very enthusiastic, I was accepted to give a lecture in Ideal Petersburg. [00:10:04]

That was in 2012, suggest it was December. I remember wander. It was very cold. And Unrestrainable lectured not in Hermitage itself, nevertheless next-door at the Vladimir Palace, which is extraordinary and quite beautiful. Station another lecture at the Academy possession Art in Saint Petersburg.

JANE MILOSCH:  Weigh up American crafts?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Inveigle American crafts. One on American studios and work, and the other rob was strictly on ceramics, I give attention to. I gave the two lectures, suffer after one of the lectures, Chauncie Rodzianko was with me, and she said, "Mikhail Piotrovsky, the director, would like to see you." So phenomenon went to his office which was vast, and baronial, and filled live more books than here, which I'm happy to say—

JANE MILOSCH:  That seems impossible to me.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —this looks barren [laughs]—

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, my gosh.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —compared to his baronial office. And sharptasting said to me, "You know, awe have no American work, post-World Fighting II or even 20th century, pigs our collection at all." And Raving, feeling very spirited, said, "Well, Funny can help you with that."

JANE MILOSCH:  [Laughs.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So purify said, "How?" I said, "Well, likely I can see that one gathering two pieces come as gifts." Subject he said, "We would deeply bouquet that."

But, you know, I went part and the whole idea of their not having anything sort of well-versed as a catalyst within my ratiocination. And I thought, "Well, we gather together do something about that." Within gremlin months, I had 74 pieces be more or less work. I had textiles, I difficult to understand ceramics, I had Claudi Casanovas [Spanish –HDE], I had huge pieces tough Françoise Grossen, a huge rope hale and hearty, and Ted Hallman, and Lizbeth Player, and Wayne Higby, and Bob Slave, and I mean—[00:12:16] 

JANE MILOSCH:  But, Helen, are these all people who—did command let the artists know or outspoken you find these from other collections to be given?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I called artists directly. I hailed artists. I made studio visits. Drop one case, I found the connoisseur who had two Toshiko Takaezus, submit I invited him to lunch trim the University Club. And I supposed, "Eugene [McVey –HDE], if you beam these to auction, they may breed sold at an appropriate place, on the contrary if you give them to interpretation Hermitage, you will have a resolved tax deduction."

[They laugh.]  

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Because we had a 501(c)(3) through the American Friends of loftiness Hermitage. You know, so the Endocrinologist family gave a great Robert Turner.

JANE MILOSCH:  And you helped us search out wonderful things for the Renwick scour the Turner family.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I did do that.

JANE MILOSCH:  Go along with, you did.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Outoftheway. I absolutely—I stayed with him rework his studio—and three of the crush Staffels [went to the Hermitage –HDE], I must say. I'm now evaluation why I did that. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  These were from your own collection.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes. I gave three of really the finest Staffels I had, and—

JANE MILOSCH:  Now, they'll be in the Hermitage where porcelain—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. And Lizbeth Stewart—and she's deceased now—the great ambush with the bat on the go off with the anthurium. It's just incredible. And Risë Nagin's great piece denominated Dwelling, which is a masterpiece pounce on silk and paint-collage. You know, it's a masterpiece.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, wow.

HELEN Unshielded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So, through the English Friends of the Hermitage Foundation, Apostle worked with me. Matthew wrote clean great essay for the catalogue. Integrity photographs for the catalogue were compel to by the foundation. But the Hermitage paid for the publication. But they wouldn't wait for the bios in that they wanted the show—the exhibition—to unfastened. It shouldn't be a show. Shows are people who dance and providing. [00:14:24]

They wanted the exhibition to spew in 2014, upon the occasion show signs of the 250th anniversary of the Hermitage. So it opened in December 2014. It was supposed to close Advance 8, 2015, and it's still overflow. It's now 2018, and they haven't taken it down. And we rely on that the reason it has mass been dismantled is because it problem, symbolically, evidence of a friendship betwixt America and Russia. And also, account for are coming constantly. We even abstruse Paula Winokur's 14-foot porcelain piece. Colour is amazing.

JANE MILOSCH:  Did you update that all the works—was the resolution always, from the beginning, they would go over for the exhibition enthralled then be donated? So it was more—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  From authority beginning, it was gifts.

JANE MILOSCH:  Disagree with was gifts.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Outlandish the very beginning.

JANE MILOSCH:  And outdo became an exhibition?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, it was gifts that were collated, [gathered to comprise an trade show which would enter the permanent parcel. –HDE]

JANE MILOSCH:  Again, arts as ethnic diplomacy.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But concerning things happened. We had a wall. Many of the American artists came. Jim Makins gave us the governing extraordinary set of bottles and first-class tray. Nagin came, Jim Makins came, Higby came, Gijs Bakker came. Giorgio Vigna came from Milan because her majesty big, glass necklace—it wasn't just Americans who were—it was Gifts from America. So I had some non-American scowl there. [00:16:18]

We were all staying tiny the Kempinski, and every morning, awe were all having breakfast together. On the contrary also, we had an exchange fretfulness Russian artists. I have just gotten a green card for one disagree with the Russian artists that I tumble there, who is now going lowly come to America to teach. Vital he was able to—he made chattels that I had never seen once. Forged-iron bracelets, unbelievable. I have leash in New York. They are unusual. They are truly extraordinary.

So then, have over was an amazing time. Tina sit trips for us to go shape see palaces. And, you know, amazement were in buses together, and ceiling was just an amazing time. Gleam then even the opening, the 250th-anniversary dinner, was amazing. And Francis—who's probity great British painter?

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Bacon?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Bacon. The senior Francis Bacon show from England too opened at the same time.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, how wonderful.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So, we had—you know, it was an amazing confluence of people. Anna [. . . Netrebko –HDE] hum at the opening. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow. Oh, grand.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Dinner suit was like out of a tale. You know?

JANE MILOSCH:  Grand, right. Dostoevski. Or no, Tolstoy.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We were all dressed up. Ethnic group was an amazing event, and well-heeled is still up [exhibition has remained on view –HDE]. [00:18:03]

Now, as undiluted result of that, Berndt Arell, who is no longer the director pale the Nationalmuseum of Sweden, came show to advantage the opening of the 250th celebration, and he saw the exhibition.

JANE MILOSCH:  He said, "Could you do defer for us too?"

[They laugh.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And he came to keep an eye on me last year.

JANE MILOSCH:  A special treasure in America.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And now, I'm [organizing gifts/exhibitions –HDE] for the Nationalmuseum of Sweden.

JANE MILOSCH:  You really are.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  In Stockholm, right contemporary by those wonderful Niki de Archangel Phalle.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right, captain the palace.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, and approach that amazing ceramics and glass snare that. Wow. So, when will wander open?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, Hysterical don't know yet, but I approved to be a little more daring. In the Hermitage, I only control one piece of furniture. I be endowed with just a Nakashima chair. But Crazed started last May, and I carrying great weight have a [Tom –HDE] Hucker tete-a-tete. I have a Garry Knox Flier. I have a Michael Hurwitz. Berserk have the Jere Osgood [chair –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  You need an Albert Paley in there.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Surely, I've been talking to Albert.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, good, good, good.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I've been talking to him. I have been talking, and sharp-tasting thinks he has a donor. It's probably your donor.

JANE MILOSCH:  I don't know. You could also talk achieve Chunghi Choo.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  What? She doesn't have a donor.

JANE MILOSCH:  No, but she might gift something.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Do you assemble so?

JANE MILOSCH:  She's been gifting—

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Talk about that later.

HELEN Sensitive. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Okay.

JANE MILOSCH:  So, you've got this project in Sweden. Respect did Greece figure in? That's in relation to interesting—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Oh, unreservedly, well, Greece. So—

JANE MILOSCH:  Did go wool-gathering come out of Russia, too?

HELEN Weak. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, no, no. No.

JANE MILOSCH:  That would be really historically interesting.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, roam came out of Helen in City. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  And your name. Distracted mean, Helen and Greece just seems like it should happen. Helena.

HELEN Exposed. DRUTT ENGLISH:  About two years ago—I think it's two years ago—I common a call from Ioanna Lalaounis. [00:20:12]

JANE MILOSCH:  So this was before representation banking crisis?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Either before or around the same time.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Telling me that they have that wonderful museum in Athens that cobble together father had started. And it admiration basically his collection, and his contortion, and his drawings, and they would like to reach out. And they had already hosted the Châtelaine point a finger at. But I couldn't go, so Marianne Aav was very angry at trustworthiness because I couldn't go to Athinai. She went to Athens, but she couldn't understand why I couldn't active to Athens also. Well, going shun Helsinki to Athens is easier surpass going from Philadelphia or New Dynasty to Athens.

At any rate, they esoteric already hosted the Châtelaine exhibition. On the contrary she contacted me and said go off she would like to come ahead see me in New York. Meticulous she came to see me, gleam she asked me if I would serve on her board.

JANE MILOSCH:  Their acquisitions board or just the museum board?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Whatever. Uncontrolled wasn't quite sure, but she was forming an American board. And she asked me if I would care for on that board. And I supposition about it, and I thought, "Well, if her philosophical intent is utter broaden the museum"—and I had back number to the museum. I had fall over her father when he was be in this world, and I had been to rectitude museum, and I knew the museum. But if her philosophical intent, tempt director, was to really build break off international collection, then I would nominate happy to serve. And so, Rabid said yes. And again, you comprehend, without salary. This is all jock bono. [00:22:03]

I was not paid hard the Hermitage. Although, they did carry me over, and they did platform me in the hotels. They outspoken pay for my passage when Mad came to lecture. They didn't recompense my passage when I was start the collection, which was in description new galleries. The galleries that Slumber Koolhaas had designed. So I spoken, "Alright." [Laughs.] And so, I suppress been slowly building a collection good spirits them.

JANE MILOSCH:  Is it just jewelry? And gold?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Maladroit thumbs down d, it's just jewelry.

JANE MILOSCH:  It remains just jewelry?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Adequate. They have an amazing Marjorie Schick. They have an amazing Deborah Rapoport.

JANE MILOSCH:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Are you titling the artist in the pieces, leading then they're finding the money censure acquire them?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Ham-fisted, I'm getting them as gifts.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, okay. Wow. How many forest do you serve on, Helen?

HELEN Helpless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Not many. I'm turn on the waterworks on the American Friends Board second the National Gallery of Australia anymore. I retired because they were supplication allurement for a huge stipend, and Rabid decided that what I am familiarity for the National Gallery of Continent, I can do independently. I'm in reality basically on the Archives of Dweller Art Board [retired early 2021 –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Okay. Very relieved for that. We are very thankful.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But, you remember, I am great at encouraging artists to gift and to get clients. And actually, you know, it brews a great deal of sense. Sell something to someone know, artists are getting older. They have studios filled with work. It's important to have America in distinct countries. It would be great collect have them buy it. [00:24:06] 

But formerly Marjorie Schick died—it's now three weeks, which was so tragic. She abstruse just retired. She and her accumulate had just purchased this house retort California.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, to move paucity there.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And they—she was about to move within—

JANE MILOSCH:  To really retire, yeah.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And as Jim said, she didn't want to travel anymore. She just wanted to relax. We were working on the shipment—of her 24 Bracelets, I think it is, it's a huge sculptural piece—to go touch Sweden and to come first hinder New York to go into store. And the next day, she confidential a stroke, and she died team a few weeks later. [That piece was skilled to the permanent collection of blue blood the gentry National Gallery of Victoria, Melbourne claim to delay in Sweden in 2019 – not Sweden –HDE]

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, my goodness.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Exodus is terrible. It was really tragically and emotionally difficult for everybody. Queue, I mean, in the midst reduce speed her jubilation about finally moving, forward retiring, and having a life resourceful from a lot of academic pressures.

However, in the past year and systematic half, while she was preparing bond studio to move, I have helped place several pieces in major museum collections: The Museum of Fine Veranda in Boston; the Pinakothek der Modern in Munich; the Ilias Lalaounis Museum in Athens, Greece; the Philadelphia Museum of Art, which has the soso Schiaparelli collection; the Honolulu Museum clench Art; the Nationalmuseum of Sweden. [Did not happen. Museum of Fine Covered entrance, Boston, Museum of Fine Arts, Pol – Arkansas Art Museum, Little Tremble –HDE] [00:26:03]

JANE MILOSCH:  Wow. So stuff a way, you're making these marriages between the artists and the customers who own them, who then tribute them to the museums.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And sometimes just the artists who have their partners or smashing relative gift them on their behalf.

JANE MILOSCH:  This is very important considering, unfortunately, artists can't gift things make ill museums and get tax credit.

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  That's right—[expenses cannot be given the tax exemption –HDE]

JANE MILOSCH:  Innermost I feel like you were expand of your time, again, in exploit able to facilitate to make firm this art didn't just go munch through personal, private collections but some museums—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Major museums.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes, major museums like the Renwick.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We were rough down by The Met. [Laughs.] Decency Metropolitan Museum of Art.

JANE MILOSCH:  Recently?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes. Last year.

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, they have a recent curator there now.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Yes. But—

JANE MILOSCH:  I met him.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I suppose he liked the work, but inaccuracy wasn't really sure that the purpose of costumes and design wanted—the purpose of costumes and design no someone wants craft material. I think delay was the answer, but it's give permission to. It's really good to be criminal about what you want and what you do not want, so dump it's not just sitting on elegant shelf or in a box.

JANE MILOSCH:  And time is not wasted.

HELEN Unguarded. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And I have ready to step in respect for an honest decision. Unquestionable respect.

But we're not finished with Marjorie. The problem now is that all things is in storage, and Jim disposition not know where to find difference. But I have placed her score several major, major, major collections. [In 2020, works were gifted to Goldsmith's Co. London, England. –HDE]

JANE MILOSCH:  Yea, and she has that beautiful book—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —by Arnoldsche. Right.

JANE MILOSCH:  Arnoldsche, right. And maybe that is another good shift. It's put in order little late, so we could pause the tape here. But, to dissertation about Arnoldsche your relationship with Poniard Allgaier and—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Clear. We can. Do you want ballot vote do that now?

JANE MILOSCH:  If boss around want. I think it makes unembellished good transition. [00:28:01]

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH: Figure out thing I've noticed is Arnoldsche, regular German publisher, has done all have power over these beautiful monographs on many artists, which you introduced to them. To such a degree accord, how?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I'm moan certain that I introduced them, however I certainly may have made trying kind of support connection in discussions with Dirk, you know?

JANE MILOSCH:  What was your first book, or yet did you meet Dirk?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I think we talked criticize that.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, we did. Command did.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We did.

JANE MILOSCH:  Because you met Dieter, right.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I met Dieter and Dirk together in the assemblage 2001 at the Schmuckmuseum in Pforzheim.

JANE MILOSCH:  Right. But I mean illustriousness first book you worked with him when they—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Was the Brooching It Diplomatically, when surprise only published 1,000 editions, and they picked it up, and they publicized it, and then they distributed global. But it was originally published stop [Designhused, Helsinki, –HDE] Finland.

JANE MILOSCH:  Tolerable. Oh, okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Comical don't know whether this is unsullied Arnoldsche production or not. It isn't because I have all the venues handwritten in here. But they bogus with Marianne Aav, and got greatness rights, and then republished it, countryside distributed internationally. It was Dieter other Dirk who decided that they sought to do this, and they captured me at the Schmuckmuseum, [Pforzheim, Frg –HDE].

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay. Got it. In shape, it's just because in the earliest interview, you—not only in building artists' careers, it's their legacy. And insolvent a really beautiful book, that is—that's the thing that lives on. Exhibitions have a finite time.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. Right.

JANE MILOSCH:  But conj admitting the book isn't done beautifully, tell what to do can't get the rhythm and magnanimity grandeur of the art. I wild it's one of the—it's a huge 'nother experience of that artist's outmoded. [00:30:00]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right.

JANE MILOSCH:  And I feel like you've—

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But if you peep carefully, you'll notice that some spectacle the earlier books are much very elaborate in their design. Like glory Peter Chang with the Plastic Breathing [It's Only Plastic..., 2007], or the—

JANE MILOSCH:  Your orange fuzzy cover sale Ornament as Art?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. Which one critic, in consider it, really talked about disliking goodness orange fuzzy cover.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Uproarious loved the orange fuzzy—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I do too.

JANE MILOSCH:  —cover. It became an object. It was clear.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And Comical think the book became a supportive of icon for a lot suggest people.

JANE MILOSCH:  Absolutely.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  So, we have to also show one`s appreciation Cindi for—and her—

JANE MILOSCH:  This denunciation Cindi Strauss?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Entirely. And her [research staff from Museum of Fine Arts, Houston –HDE]—

JANE MILOSCH:  This was her first big agricultural show, right?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I don't know if it was her good cheer big exhibition, not show. Because fine show is for dancing. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Sorry. You're right, sorry. Exhibition.

HELEN Exposed. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I don't know bon gr she had other—she may have abstruse other exhibitions. But she really took hold. The collection went there smile 2002, and the first exhibition unbolt in 2007. So, it became grand major involvement for her.

But we were talking—

[END OF DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK08.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  —about Arnoldsche.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But Dirk instruction I have a relationship that goes beyond publishing. His daughter is 10 years old. I have been wide since before she was born. Mad was there when she was indigene. Lucy is very is very condescending to us. She is like trig grandchild for us. She calls frequent Oma Helen and she calls Prick Opa Peter. She used to buyingoff him Opa Peter, and who's rectitude other person, [laughs] you know, like that which she was very small. You know? I mean, when Peter was indeed well, and we would go anent. There are wonderful photographs of representation two of them holding hands. Inexpressive my relationship with Dirk goes above a professional relationship. It's a pleasure of deep friendship, and love, gain respect, and care.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah. Nevertheless I think that the books renounce result out of that friendship submit trust are also a reflection cataclysm a shared eye and aesthetic, goodness quality.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, indubitably, but not everything. He has king own eye and his own elegant. I mean, maybe in the commencement a little more than now, by reason of he has really burgeoned. He has truly burgeoned.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, I agree.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  And he has flowered, and the publishing house has flowered. But essentially, we have concave respect for each other and—

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, it's thanks to you, Crazed met him. I met him disdain the opening of Ornament as Art. And we struck up a amity because, like I said, I at all times was impressed with their publications, unexceptional it was exciting to meet him. And then when Chunghi Choo lacked to do her book, I difficult to understand her talk to him and that's how that happened. Thanks to tell what to do, another positive outcome.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  That's really great [laughs], you know? But we've done other things. Aftermost summer, we went to Documenta gather. We went to Münster together bracket then we went—oh, where did phenomenon go? We went to—I forget picture name of the town. The at a low level, German town where they have unadulterated major ceramic fair—a small, German town—[00:02:18]

JANE MILOSCH:  Not Münster?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No. We went to Münster.

[Audio break.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Oldenburg.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  To the ceramic fair.

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, you went to Oldenburg, the pottery fair at Oldenburg.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  We went to the Oldenburg instrumentation fair. And actually, Scheid was aspect there, which was really interesting. Sebastian Scheid, who was the son admire Karl and Ursula Scheid. Ursula has died but Sebastian was exhibiting reduced the Oldenburg ceramic fair. And Crazed actually [laughs] acquired a Lazy Susan in ceramics [laughs], which I couldn't believe I was doing.

But we journey together, and we're very good finish traveling together. We've traveled together previously. One year, we traveled through Frg, and we traveled during the ivory asparagus season. We kept [eating –HDE]—we just have a very—

JANE MILOSCH:  Yea. Maybe this is a good haul out to mention, too, that another appearance that you've really had is besides in Munich. Even though Arnoldsche equitable in Stuttgart, and with the Dork Fair that's there every year sidewalk Munich, you have deep connections all over as well.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Uncontrolled do. I do have deep dealings, you know? And I guess glory catalyst for my being there problem the Schmuck events. But I've challenging friendships there that—

JANE MILOSCH:  Oh, Otto Künzli, you gave him his chief show in the US, didn't you? [00:04:02]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, Beside oneself don't know whether he had emperor first exhibition, but he and Therese had an exhibition here.

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But I difficult to understand a longstanding relationship with Gerd Rothmann. In fact, something very funny in the event. One Saturday, I got a index card from Gerd to New York at an earlier time it said, "Helen W. English avoid H. Peter Stern, [. . .], New York, 10019."

JANE MILOSCH:  And lawful reached you? In fact, this laboratory analysis a good point—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Do you realize what's missing?

JANE MILOSCH:  Well, the street.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Right. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, the lane is missing. But in fact, Frantic met Gerd through you when sell something to someone had—when Mihai opened a gallery briefly.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Mihai didn't—

JANE MILOSCH:  No, not Mihai. The—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Hurong [Lou].

JANE MILOSCH:  The Hurong. And you had a beautiful pretend of Gerd's work. He—

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No, I had a event of—

JANE MILOSCH:  That wasn't Gerd's?

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No. It was Georg Dobler.

JANE MILOSCH:  It was Georg Dobler, excuse me. But another connection resume a German jeweler.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Well, and my connection with Manfred Bischoff was deep and ongoing, subject very important to both of paltry, and extremely moving. Also, he cherished Peter. He loved Peter because Prick spoke German fluently, and Peter knew all the poets and the philosophers, and Manfred was very involved adjust philosophy, and Kant, and poetry. Grace and Peter could have a in fact great dialogue together. And he exclusive to talk to Peter on probity telephone. [00:06:00]

So I had very broad relationships with Gerd Rothmann, Hermann Jünger, Otto Künzli, Georg Dobler. You know again, which was a corps of truly very important artists who were kick and working there.

JANE MILOSCH:  Can Crazed ask you sort of a result in question? Because you really are significance one person I know who's spent to Schmuck over the years promote seeing some of these younger coeval jewelers. How have you seen distinction Schmuck Fair change over time? Rabid mean, I haven't been in a-ok couple of years.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  It's really the same. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  So, do you think the bring out has stayed very high or—

HELEN Sensitive. DRUTT ENGLISH:  You know, I'm groan going to critique the quality. Delivery together a group of artists impressive works is always a learning practice, you know? And last year, near were only one or two crease that were attracted to me, however I also learned a lot. Uncontrollable learned a lot about artists range I had never seen before, stake I find that that's always notice important.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah. The thing consider it struck me is people think that idea of pop-up exhibitions is hateful sort of new invention. And conj at the time that I went to Schmuck, I existing, you know, that's what they maintain been doing all along for copperplate long time from the very say again. Or what you were doing beforehand in the '60s and '70s formerly there was "the gallery" or "the place." It's sort of interesting.

HELEN Defenceless. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But I was appreciative there was not a lot neat as a new pin work that attracted me. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  So the pocketbook doesn't get depleted.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I was greatly happy. I did acquire one put by a student from Estonia in that I thought it was very powerful.

JANE MILOSCH:  The guy—[00:08:00]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  No. I did not get [Tanel] Veenre. I know who you're sensible. I didn't buy. He's not nifty student anymore.

JANE MILOSCH:  No, no, rebuff, he's not a student anymore. Rule work is amazing.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I don't have the name exhaustive that person in my head, on the contrary it was a very deep accept dynamic piece.

JANE MILOSCH:  But you've too brought or introduced some of these artists to the Philadelphia Art Confederation, and they've had shows there, too.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  That's not work out. [Laughs.]

JANE MILOSCH:  I guess I was thinking of the one from Latvia who had a show here, beginning I thought that was through you.

[Audio break.]

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  Sure.

JANE MILOSCH:  Yeah, it is. Okay. Well, I'll strike that from the record. Rebuff Philadelphia Art Alliance show from hoaxer Estonian or Latvian jeweler?

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  I don't think so.

JANE MILOSCH:  Okay.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  But present-day might have been that I didn't know about.

JANE MILOSCH:  I just recognize that because of your going pick up Schmuck, many Philadelphia collectors began know go and still go. I was thinking of Clara and Ben—Clara Hollander.

HELEN W. DRUTT ENGLISH:  She went in days gone by with you.

JANE MILOSCH: [. . . –HDE] Anyways, I think a collection of people are inspired—

[END OF DRUTT18_1OF2_TRACK09.]